I arrive 1 / 4 of an hour early on the Tick Tock Diner to find that Chris Christie is already there. “You’ll find him on the again,” says a waitress. It’s exhausting to consider a extra atmospheric setting to fulfill the previous governor of New Jersey, who’s operating for the second time to be the Republican presidential nominee.

One thing of a legend because it opened in 1948, the neon-signed, silver-panelled roadside joint is tough to overlook amid the drab strip malls on this busy freeway a number of miles north of Newark. Just a few years in the past, Tick Tock’s then supervisor was jailed for arranging a failed hit job on his uncle, a Greek-American who co-owns the eatery. That is the Bada Bing of diners. On this stifling summer season afternoon, it’s teeming with prospects.

Christie’s beneficiant body is immediately seen towards a again window, the place he’s seated at a small vinyl desk cluttered with bottles of ketchup and mustard.

“They have been complaining that I haven’t visited for some time,” says Christie, whose house is about 30 miles east of right here. We’re assembly simply two weeks after Christie launched his marketing campaign, which is explicitly primarily based on the case that Donald Trump have to be taken down instantly. This stands out in an more and more crowded Republican area the place a lot of the candidates, together with Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida, are tiptoeing across the topic of Trump. Just a few days earlier, Trump had been indicted for concealing extremely categorized paperwork at his Mar-a-Lago resort. Christie, a former public prosecutor, was alone within the area in saying the cost sheet was “devastating”.

In consequence, Trump is concentrating on Christie. Earlier this month he launched a doctored video that confirmed Christie talking at a city corridor occasion whereas holding aloft a plate closely laden with fries and burgers. Christie responded by calling Trump a “child”.

That pretend plate appeared like simply the type of factor we would order at this time. “I’m going to go for a Mick Jagger,” Christie tells the waiter. It is a Taylor ham (an area type of processed pork) and cheese roll with two fried eggs and a aspect of disco fries — the latter a New Jersey speciality drowned in gravy and melted mozzarella. It was named after the Rolling Stones star who appreciated the order when he ate right here a couple of years in the past.

“A Jagger could be a bit of a lot for you,” says Christie, once I ask for his recommendation. “I’ll go for a similar,” I inform the waiter, who seems to be disapproving.

Is {that a} dangerous selection, I ask. “You recognize, I simply figured you perhaps wished to attempt one thing a bit of completely different,” says the waiter within the broadest New Jersey accent, with a touch of reproach. Because the diner’s motto is “eat heavy”, I persist with my weapons. Whaddya gonna do? I inform Christie that Tick Tock makes a enjoyable distinction to the upscale venues by which most Lunches with the FT happen. “There’s no branzino on the menu right here, for positive,” says Christie.

I ask Christie if he’s girded for the approaching onslaught from Trump, assuming he clears the low threshold — 1 per cent in three nationwide polls and 40,000 separate donors — to look on the Republican debate stage in August. Christie is already operating at 9 per cent in New Hampshire, which hosts the primary main.

“I’ve identified Trump for 22 years, so none of it might shock me,” he says. “Most of his stuff is fairly juvenile. So long as you’re ready for these infantile assaults, it’s advantageous. If that stuff bothers you, you’re in all probability lower than being president of the USA.”

Look, there’s a case that must be prosecuted towards Trump and his report, and I believe the identical factor as to Joe Biden

We’re interrupted by a girl who desires Christie to pose for an image together with her daughter. That’s adopted by one other well-wisher, who tells Christie that he cherished his gubernatorial slogan: “I’m going to do it my manner”. (Wasn’t that Frank Sinatra?) A 3rd comes up and says one thing inaudible. Christie replies: “In the event you assume I’m higher trying in actual life, then I need to preserve you round.” He apologises for the interruptions. “I paid these individuals,” he jokes.

Whereas he was US lawyer for New Jersey, Christie secured 130 political convictions or responsible pleas — not a single case misplaced. “Look,” he says, “there’s a case that must be prosecuted towards Trump and his report, and I believe the identical factor as to Joe Biden.” I observe that he and Biden have the identical alma mater, the College of Delaware, the place Christie did his undergraduate diploma — the one 4 years that he has not lived in New Jersey.

Although Biden is 20 years Christie’s senior, they obtained to know one another 4 a long time in the past. “I’ve identified Biden longer than I’ve identified Trump,” says Christie. “He would come to soccer video games. It’s a really small state, Delaware. So everybody who’s outstanding, you wind up seeing them. In his youthful years, he was a really pure, gregarious retail politician and I believe he’s a really good individual. I by no means had any interactions with Joe Biden that will make me really feel any otherwise about him.” He makes positive so as to add: “However age has undoubtedly modified him. It’s an infirmity.”

Our crowded plates of Jaggers have landed. We every set to the duty earlier than us — Christie’s because it got here, mine I spray-paint with ketchup. He’s consuming iced water. I’ve a closely iced glass of weight-reduction plan cola.

I confess to Christie that I’m trying ahead to seeing him debate Trump. Watching Christie in 2016 eviscerate Marco Rubio, one of many marketing campaign’s also-rans, was a spotlight. Trump has stated he is not going to debate this time. Christie thinks that may be a bluff. “Understanding Trump as I do, I believe he would have a tough time resisting, and it might be politically very dangerous for him, as a result of people who find themselves typically supportive of Trump like him partially as a result of he’s a troublesome man, a fighter — that’s the picture. So I don’t assume there’s a situation by which he doesn’t debate. Ultimately he wants it.”

Since your case is that Trump has disqualified himself from being president, will you are taking the loyalty pledge to assist whoever the nominee might be, I ask. Christie laughs: “I informed them, ‘I’ll take the pledge each bit as significantly as Trump did in 2016,’ after we all signed a pledge and all of us reaffirmed it on the stage — aside from him.”

I recommend that every of them would go straight for the opposite’s jugular. Christie shrugs. “Final week he despatched out some video mocking me for my weight,” he says. “It doesn’t hassle me about me, it bothers me about him. If that’s what you’ve obtained to say, then advantageous. He’s some Adonis himself. However, if one in all your kids had despatched out a TikTok a couple of classmate that did that, and also you have been a mother or father, you’d punish them. You’d ship them to their room, to not the White Home.”

I say to Christie that lots of people assume his candidacy is about revenge. In 2016, he dropped out of his marketing campaign and endorsed Trump with the expectation that he would at the very least be Trump’s attorney-general, and possibly his operating mate. He was provided neither, and was additionally fired as the pinnacle of Trump’s transition workforce. The hearsay was that Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law, blocked Christie’s path as payback for the truth that Christie had jailed Kushner’s father Charles Kushner, a New Jersey actual property investor, for a tawdry episode involving intercourse and tax evasion.

“First off, it’s not true that I wasn’t provided plenty of completely different jobs by Trump,” says Christie. “He provided me secretary of labour and secretary of homeland safety twice. He provided me to be White Home chief of workers in 2018. Jared himself known as me to encourage me to do it. I made a aware choice that I didn’t need to work for Trump as a result of he’s unattainable to work for. I don’t have a vendetta on that.”

Would he have accepted the vice-presidency? “It was right down to me or Mike Pence for vice-president and Trump picked Pence. He informed me precisely on the telephone why he did. He stated, ‘Mike seems to be extra like a vice-president — he’s out of central casting.’ That’s how Trump thinks. We glance the best way we glance. I’ve a superb relationship with Pence. Individuals who haven’t been via it don’t perceive. You by no means anticipate to be given one in all these jobs. And I by no means thought I had a vice-presidential persona. It could be type of gutsy to select me. They know I’ll be outspoken and never be a wallflower.”

I say that Christie could have dodged a bullet on that one. “Actually there are lots of people who say, ‘You’re quite a bit higher off not having been in that job now.’ I definitely would have performed myself otherwise than Mike did.”

To my disquiet, I discover I’ve conquered much more of my Jagger than Christie, who has deserted his midway. “Neither of us might want to eat once more at this time,” he says.

Christie’s actual starvation is evidently directed at Trump, who he says can’t recover from the truth that he misplaced “honest and sq.” to Biden in 2020. However what does that say about the remainder of the sphere?

What I’m saying to [Republicans] is ‘cease whispering’. To me they’re actually whispering . . . My level is, ‘It’s OK, he doesn’t have a military of his personal, he’s not anyone to be afraid of’

“Lots of people have been saying I don’t know if you happen to can win or not, however you’re the one one who can tackle Trump instantly. In the event you do what the opposite of us on this race are doing, which is actually to barely even say his title, nothing essential, how do you anticipate individuals to maneuver from him to you? You must exit and make the case. I believe what different persons are doing is sure for failure. Now, I don’t know whether or not what I’m doing is sure for achievement however we’re going to search out out.” I level out that almost all Republicans I do know in Washington DC share Christie’s darkish view of Trump however only a few — with Utah senator Mitt Romney being a notable exception — are ready to say so in public.

“Nearly all of Republicans know two issues,” says Christie. “One which Trump has proved himself too self-consumed to be an efficient president, and two that he has been a failure politically. We preserve dropping. What I’m saying to them [fellow Republicans] is ‘cease whispering’. To me they’re actually whispering, even when it’s simply the 2 of us speaking. My level to all of them is, ‘It’s OK, he doesn’t have a military of his personal, he’s not anyone to be afraid of.’”

Do you assume Trump could be completely different as president a second time spherical, I interrupt. “Oh, he’d be a lot worse,” says Christie. “When he first obtained in, he was scared. He would bluster quite a bit, he didn’t know what authorities was like and didn’t know methods to manoeuvre it. He could be much more of an issue as president this time. He’s about growing his personal energy and lashing out at these individuals and establishments that he’s felt wronged by.”

Our waiter asks if we wish the rest. Christie asks for extra water. I request a robust espresso. “It’s good espresso however not like Starbucks-strong, ?” says the waiter. No matter you are able to do, I say.

Would Trump finish the Ukraine warfare inside 24 hours? ‘He’d give Ukraine to the Russians. He wouldn’t care much less’

I do not forget that Christie — who voted for Trump in 2020 however deserted him the night time he stated the election was stolen — claims he caught Covid-19 from the then president. “He gave me Covid. He did,” says Christie. “He gave it to 5 of the six individuals within the room. I used to be within the ICU for seven days. He known as me, when he was in Walter Reed [when he was also sick with Covid], to see how I used to be doing, however why he actually known as was to test I wasn’t going to inform the press he gave it to me. I stated to him, ‘I don’t know that you simply gave it to me,’ as a result of at that time I didn’t know. Then two years later, [former chief of staff] Mark Meadows’ ebook got here out that Trump had examined constructive that morning when he had began the final periods of debate prep, and I test with the opposite of us who have been within the room, and he didn’t inform any of them both. In a while, after we went again on the marketing campaign path, he informed reporters that I gave him Covid.”

That should nonetheless rankle, I say. “I believe that incident exhibits Trump’s character as starkly as any I might title. If you consider it: you’ve got on the time an untreatable, incurable virus and also you expose your marketing campaign supervisor, your speechwriter, your communications director and your spokesperson and me to it. You knowingly obtained them sick.”

Christie has a marketing campaign to prosecute and I’ve a practice to catch. It strikes me that he would possibly effectively be on a kamikaze mission. If he brings Trump down, he will not be the beneficiary. If he fails to carry Trump down, there could be revenge. I point out Liz Cheney, the previous Republican lawmaker, who voted for Trump’s impeachment and was ejected from Congress in a landslide Republican main towards her. Was all of it well worth the threat? “The worst factor to occur to me is I lose,” Christie says. “I’ve finished that earlier than and the solar got here up the subsequent day. The factor that will preserve me up at night time is that I let [Trump’s return] occur with out making an attempt to cease it.”

Does he assume Trump means it when he says he would finish the Ukraine warfare inside 24 hours? “He’d give Ukraine to the Russians. He wouldn’t care much less,” says Christie. “Trump is somebody who believes: fill the moat, pull up the drawbridge.” Is that as a result of Putin has some type of a maintain over him? “No, he simply admires strongmen,” Christie replies. “I believe we see a fairly constant sample of him wishing he was a dictator, wishing he could possibly be Putin in America. That’s what’s darkish to me about it. That’s what he actually desires. He desires to be a dictator.”

As I’m settling the invoice, one other fan approaches. “I’m proper behind you,” says the late middle-aged man. “We’d like anyone robust within the White Home.” That have to be good to your ego, I say. “I’m grabbing the flag and operating up the hill,” says Christie, as we’re shaking palms. “You’re extra more likely to get shot that manner however that’s OK.”

Edward Luce is the FT’s US nationwide editor

Discover out about our newest tales first — observe @ftweekend on Twitter